Yes, it’s time to stop justifying the study of Philosophy by pointing to how well-paid philosophy students can be in other careers. Amen to this whole post!
I did my PhD in the methodology of development economics -- essentially economic philosophy. A professor in my department told me that he thought that the study of economic methodology should be a leisure pursuit, not something suitable for academia. One popular put-down was that real economists don't bother with methodology, they just get on with the job.
Of course the irony is that making an explicit statement about whether or not to study how economics is done is itself a methodological statement. 'I don't want to think about how to choose between schools of thought or models' is methodology. There is little option but to do some sort of methodology, even if you don't yourself realise it.
Many economists who imagine themselves to be immensely practical are in fact not 'getting on with the job' because they haven't studied the history of their subject, don't fully comprehend the meaning of philosophical fundamental concepts like empiricism, rationalism, ontology and epistemology and don't have practical experience.
And as you imply, I suspect that the founders of the discipline like Smith, Ricardo, Hume, Marx, Walras, Pareto, Marshall and Keynes might beg to differ with the proposition that philosophy doesn't matter.
Perhaps paradoxically, the undergraduate, masters and doctoral training I received in philosophy turned out to be at least as practically useful in my career as a development economist as the pure economics I studied.
I’ve recently had a couple of graduate engineering friends, playfully challenge me about the cultural devalue of Philosophy in America. They posed two supposedly antagonizing questions:
(1) What does philosophy actually make (construct)? To which I answered: our highly treasured scientific method and reasoned theories of natural, nation state, and international law (among other things).
(2) Why aren’t philosophers interviewed on, say, “60 Minutes” as are economists or political scientists?
To which I pointed out: check-book journalism may entice an interview with Snoop Dog or Martha Stewart on “60 Minutes.” But not current philosophers Noam Chomsky or John Haldane. Nor Karl Popper, were he still alive. In sum, genuine philosophers cannot be bought. Nor do they have agents “selling” their brands.
this is the kind of thing that drives me nuts. “what do they produce?” as if the sole purpose of humans is to produce or “create value.” ironically, if they spent a bit more time considering the world through a different lens, they might reason themselves out of this implanted value system.
I agree. I do believe, however, that Noam Chomsky would do well speaking about this complex issue in simple terms for our ignorant, uneducated, and downright lazy American public. If he had more exposure, perhaps a few lightbulbs would start glowing above a few heads.
You can get the same job with a philosophy degree that you can with any other four year degree. You can go to graduate school and pursue a masters and PHD in any discipline with a bachelor degree in philosophy. BTW, I didn’t choose philosophy, philosophy chose me. It was never my intention to major in philosophy, yet that’s where I landed. Who knew!?
I wrote an essay on this very topic for Professor Warner Wick in one of my first philosophy classes, back in 1972. Yours is better, though I did end up majoring in philosophy and probably could have improved on my initial effort later.
I didn’t continue formal study of philosophy after my bachelor’s degree, but I never stopped studying it, either. A foundation in logic, epistemology, rhetoric, aesthetics, and ethics has profoundly affected everything I’ve done since college.
There are also some interesting statistics measuring the job market performance of college graduates. Philosophers actually perform quite well. Of course, it’s challenging to find a job specifically tailored to philosophy graduates, but like Thales, they often prove versatile and resourceful.
One remarkable feature of philosophy is its ability to foster critical thinking—a skill that is indispensable today, especially in an age where we are flooded with vast amounts of information daily.
So empirical evidence supports the need for philosophy, but honestly, the best answer to the question, "Oh, what are you going to do after graduating in philosophy?" is, "None of your business." Why should the applause of others measure your success?
Maybe colleges should make all incoming freshmen start with philosophy (at least some epistemology, ethics, logic) and then once that framework is in place, release them into other fields.
On the flip side, I’ve run into some young philosophers, suspended since childhood in academic jargon and formal arguments, who seem like they could use some life experience to broaden their perspective and temper their theoretical certainty. Maybe colleges should make these students go outside and play with other kids for a semester or two as part of their liberal education.
Right now those of us with little or no college are feeling buried by an unprecedented avalanche of data. We could use the shovel that practical philosophy provides. If only more philosophers would prioritize expressing themselves in a way we all can understand.
Volvo invented the three-point seatbelt, but refused a patent in order to make it freely available to everyone. They just gave it away, to everyone’s benefit. What I’m saying is, you’re welcome.
Philosophy in higher education has no meaning or value….
….if it’s not taught to children as well. You cannot justify philosophy to a grown adult who has already formed a life view that is focused on selfish monetary gains. They will not get it.
And btw. The Jews pushed out Spinoza because he was a quack. It’s funny you include the Jews in the historic groups that opposed philosophy when they have been teaching philosophy to their children before Pythagorus was even a notion over coffee and a second date.
Your rants are more valuable than a lot of posts that are non-rants. This one is gold!
Thank you for writing it.
Thanks!
Yes, it’s time to stop justifying the study of Philosophy by pointing to how well-paid philosophy students can be in other careers. Amen to this whole post!
I did my PhD in the methodology of development economics -- essentially economic philosophy. A professor in my department told me that he thought that the study of economic methodology should be a leisure pursuit, not something suitable for academia. One popular put-down was that real economists don't bother with methodology, they just get on with the job.
Of course the irony is that making an explicit statement about whether or not to study how economics is done is itself a methodological statement. 'I don't want to think about how to choose between schools of thought or models' is methodology. There is little option but to do some sort of methodology, even if you don't yourself realise it.
Many economists who imagine themselves to be immensely practical are in fact not 'getting on with the job' because they haven't studied the history of their subject, don't fully comprehend the meaning of philosophical fundamental concepts like empiricism, rationalism, ontology and epistemology and don't have practical experience.
And as you imply, I suspect that the founders of the discipline like Smith, Ricardo, Hume, Marx, Walras, Pareto, Marshall and Keynes might beg to differ with the proposition that philosophy doesn't matter.
Perhaps paradoxically, the undergraduate, masters and doctoral training I received in philosophy turned out to be at least as practically useful in my career as a development economist as the pure economics I studied.
I’ve recently had a couple of graduate engineering friends, playfully challenge me about the cultural devalue of Philosophy in America. They posed two supposedly antagonizing questions:
(1) What does philosophy actually make (construct)? To which I answered: our highly treasured scientific method and reasoned theories of natural, nation state, and international law (among other things).
(2) Why aren’t philosophers interviewed on, say, “60 Minutes” as are economists or political scientists?
To which I pointed out: check-book journalism may entice an interview with Snoop Dog or Martha Stewart on “60 Minutes.” But not current philosophers Noam Chomsky or John Haldane. Nor Karl Popper, were he still alive. In sum, genuine philosophers cannot be bought. Nor do they have agents “selling” their brands.
this is the kind of thing that drives me nuts. “what do they produce?” as if the sole purpose of humans is to produce or “create value.” ironically, if they spent a bit more time considering the world through a different lens, they might reason themselves out of this implanted value system.
I produced a coherent set of answers to everything in metaphysics but no one cares.
https://kaiserbasileus.substack.com/p/metaphysics-in-a-nutshell
I agree. I do believe, however, that Noam Chomsky would do well speaking about this complex issue in simple terms for our ignorant, uneducated, and downright lazy American public. If he had more exposure, perhaps a few lightbulbs would start glowing above a few heads.
I loved this piece and its fire for philosophy
You can get the same job with a philosophy degree that you can with any other four year degree. You can go to graduate school and pursue a masters and PHD in any discipline with a bachelor degree in philosophy. BTW, I didn’t choose philosophy, philosophy chose me. It was never my intention to major in philosophy, yet that’s where I landed. Who knew!?
I wrote an essay on this very topic for Professor Warner Wick in one of my first philosophy classes, back in 1972. Yours is better, though I did end up majoring in philosophy and probably could have improved on my initial effort later.
I didn’t continue formal study of philosophy after my bachelor’s degree, but I never stopped studying it, either. A foundation in logic, epistemology, rhetoric, aesthetics, and ethics has profoundly affected everything I’ve done since college.
Thank you very much for this! I really needed it, today.
Fantastic piece!
That is very pretty text, amazing! The Philosophy will always fundamental in our society!
Love that!
There are also some interesting statistics measuring the job market performance of college graduates. Philosophers actually perform quite well. Of course, it’s challenging to find a job specifically tailored to philosophy graduates, but like Thales, they often prove versatile and resourceful.
One remarkable feature of philosophy is its ability to foster critical thinking—a skill that is indispensable today, especially in an age where we are flooded with vast amounts of information daily.
So empirical evidence supports the need for philosophy, but honestly, the best answer to the question, "Oh, what are you going to do after graduating in philosophy?" is, "None of your business." Why should the applause of others measure your success?
Maybe colleges should make all incoming freshmen start with philosophy (at least some epistemology, ethics, logic) and then once that framework is in place, release them into other fields.
On the flip side, I’ve run into some young philosophers, suspended since childhood in academic jargon and formal arguments, who seem like they could use some life experience to broaden their perspective and temper their theoretical certainty. Maybe colleges should make these students go outside and play with other kids for a semester or two as part of their liberal education.
Right now those of us with little or no college are feeling buried by an unprecedented avalanche of data. We could use the shovel that practical philosophy provides. If only more philosophers would prioritize expressing themselves in a way we all can understand.
I’m quite sympathetic. And I certainly agree about clear expression. See my rant https://hilariusbookbinder.substack.com/p/why-must-philosophy-writing-be-so
Thanks. I enjoyed that. For a related rant from the perspective of a non-philosopher:
https://woolery.substack.com/p/god-joins-the-ranks-of-things-youll
If you aren't solid on your critical thinking skills before college, you're not ready for college.
"If Ferraris were as ugly as sin, I doubt even the shallowest status-seekers would buy them."
Just one word: Cybertruck
Turns out cybertrucks aren’t too popular. https://www.edmunds.com/car-news/tesla-cuts-the-price-of-cybertruck-listings.html
I tried listening to Wagner. One of us is really, really wrong.
"We are the inventors and architects of the scientific method."
I suppose that's one way of looking at it.
Another is that it wasn't until science was liberated from philosophy that any progress was made.
But, you know, tomato, tomahto.
Volvo invented the three-point seatbelt, but refused a patent in order to make it freely available to everyone. They just gave it away, to everyone’s benefit. What I’m saying is, you’re welcome.
Volvo's philosophers were responsible for the seatbelt, you say?
Or maybe I am getting confused about your point.....
They came up with the concept, gave it away, and others ran with it. Kind of like, well….
Every meaningful philosophical ideas has been independently derived many times. No has the right to claim ownership of anything in philosophy.
Kind of like...a quarterback? (The true value of higher education.)
Philosophy in higher education has no meaning or value….
….if it’s not taught to children as well. You cannot justify philosophy to a grown adult who has already formed a life view that is focused on selfish monetary gains. They will not get it.
And btw. The Jews pushed out Spinoza because he was a quack. It’s funny you include the Jews in the historic groups that opposed philosophy when they have been teaching philosophy to their children before Pythagorus was even a notion over coffee and a second date.